How MJ’s lyrics can explain Shawcross’ tackle and Aaron Ramsey’s importance
Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Actually those are the only two lines that can explain it and that for you is taking it out of context. But hey these two lines sprang to mind and are relevant here.
It is January 2008 - Shawcross finally signs for Stoke from Manchester United after impressing on loan spell. Not even 20, Ferguson feels he is surplus to requirements. This from the manager who continues to select Wes Brown ( featured in all of Utd’s defeats this season) and to make matters worse for Shawcross, signed Belgian De Laet ironically, from Stoke last year.
On Saturday Shawcross left his mark on Ramsey, the mark of a player who failed to make the grade at Manchester United. As he tried to win the ball back he must have seen Ramsey sprinting towards it. The problem is that he saw Ramsey not as a human, but as an object, an object he saw fit justified to flatten. 30 odd seconds after he made that atrocious tackle, he was sent off and then using the card as a cue, he finally realised his error before going to check up on Ramsey.
Three years ago he kicked Jeffers off the park. Frannie was out for 3 months. Late in 2008, he targeted Adebayor. In both instances, Stoke management defended Shawcross with the trademark,
He isn’t that kind of player.
Once maybe is accidental, twice is unfortunate. When it happens three times he is either malicious, technically and tactically naive and/or just plain stupid. Read the quote below and make up your mind.
It was probably a new experience for Ryan to get frustrated, maybe that’s why he chased down the ball and made the tackle.
This came from the then Stoke Assistant manager Kemp after Shawcross’ tackle on Jeffers. To an extent said he could have said the same when Adebayor was the victim last year and on saturday when Ramsey was victim number III.
You could question whether they was any need to make the tackles. Against Adebayor it was not needed as
1) the ball was going out of play and
2) There were defenders covering.
Against Ramsey you could question the need to tackle again. There was two Stoke players, one to the left and the other to the right of Ramsey and both of them were ahead of the Welshman.
But it was almost as if Shawcross was remembering (give me the writers license here if you will), Pulis’ teamtalk ‘Don’t let the nancy boys settle on the ball. Give ‘em hell.’ And Shawcross’ long term and short term frustrations came out all in one on his latest victim, this time, Ramsey who turned down a switch to Utd himself.
And what about Aaron Ramsey? Some liken him to Cesc. Indeed I said this myself after his 20 minute cameo against Blackburn this season. Yet is it fair to say he is Cesc part II? Who is to say he couldn’t better Cesc? This is the guy who at 17 not only cost more than Cesc but also required higher levels of persuasion from Wenger to join us.
He impressed against Liverpool in the Carling cup, then at Olympiakos. At international level, he led his Wales side to humiliate a Scotland side that boasted of Darren Fletcher. Where many gifted players failed, Ramsey succeeded, humiliating Fletcher time and time again.
He made it on the bench for almost all our games at the start of the season and started 7 times in the league. Arsene targeted 15-20 games this season due to his rapid improvement. Against Stoke he was employed in midfield. Seen as a player who is not bestowed with as much defensive attributes as his attacking ones, Ramsey adopted a defensive role . He rarely ventured forward, kept it simple with his passing and won 9 out of his 11 tackles, the most attempted by an Arsenal player that evening. Few more games of Cesc and Ramsey in the team and it would have destroyed this idea that the two were unable to play together in the same team.
Instead, Ramsey will spend the next 6 months minimum anxiously hoping (like us all) that his recovery has virtually no complications. When he returns, his development will be pressed back a little. A professional player when out for that long needs time for his body to adjust to playing regular football. You only need to see how often Diaby and Eduardo have picked up minor injuries since they recovered from their leg breaks. It is all so unfortunate that at 19, Ramsey has to go through this when it could and should have been avoided.
And why? Because one frustrated footballer was misguided to use a line of thinking (or the lack of it) and adopt a style that FIFA themselves deem illegal. Shawcross “beat it” and he didn’t want to be defeated – at any cost. His reward? An England call-up. Further proof of the culture to win at any costs even if it means picking a leg breaker.
Our best wishes to Aaron to a speedy recovery.
It surprises me that the FA and the authorities don’t wanna clamp down on this kind of break your leg tackling…
We will win the 11 remaining games.
Cheers
best wishes of course to Ramsey.
FA won’t do anything will they? Taylor’s tackle on Eduardo was a lot worse and Steve Bruce thought it weren’t even a yellow. He needs to check up on that fifa definition link I put up.
Like that optimism!
A very well written piece… it’s just a shame a lot of what is said seems ridiculous! A few points:
* A footballer who trained with Man Utd, then moved to a Championship side, played a key role in getting them promoted, won their young player of the year award two years in a row, and finally becomes one of the best regarded young defenders in the country and goes on to get an England call up at 22, is regarded by you to harbour “long term frustrations” about his career and bears “mark of a failure”? I really, really fail to see how you came to that conclusion and would appreciate it if you could back up what you’re saying.
* These two previous incidents that keep being brought up don’t add anything to the study of the severity of the tackle (I mean, Shawcross’ actions, as the injury was obviously incredibly severe). You could take pretty much any player in the PL and go through their history, pick out every poor decision and bad tackle they ever made and use this to potray them as a demon. Players such as Van Persie, Gallas and Eboue have carried out more than their fair share of ‘horror tackles’ over the years, but does this mean they should be demonised and held up as the epitomes of a bad human beings? Of course not. Accidents and miscalculations do happen as regrettable as that may be, some people need to grow up and accept that.
* “That atrocious tackle”. That atrocious tackle. If you can, hand on heart, tell me that you haven’t seen tackles like that week in, week out then you must be watching a different game than me. What was atrocious about this particular tackle was the horrendous injury to Ramsey, which was just a freak as his foot was planted in the turf. If this hadn’t happened, if the force of the tackle was distributed properly and Ramsey would have got up and carried on as what would happen 99 times out of 100, nobody would have even mentioned it post game. People’s reactions to Ramsey’s plight (which is admittedly horrific) have been over clouded by emotion and reason has gone out of the window.
* “30 odd seconds after he made that atrocious tackle, he was sent off and then using the card as a cue, he finally realised his error before going to check up on Ramsey.” The card wasn’t the cue for going over to Ramsey. I don’t think Shawcross realised just how badly Ramsey was hurt until after the incident, and I think the look on his face when he realises shows that. If not, maybe he’s a failed Hollywood star as it would require incredible acting skills, and that would at least explain his apparant “long term frustrations”.
This may appear like a whinging Stoke fan sticking up for his players, but honestly I’ve never let my support get the better of me and put my blinkers on. As it happens, there have been times when I’ve seen our players put in really bad tackles as no doubt you have with your team (Salif Diao is a menace to society and Fuller has a stupid nasty streak that I hate) but I honestly think, disregarding my allegiance, the reason Ramsey got injured was because of pure bad luck rather than a reckless and malicous tackle.
For me I think the worst tackle on this page is Shawcross’ on Adebayor, as that was actually very poor and seemingly intended. I have no problem admitting that, but it has to be said this is in no way, and never will be, proof of guilt for Saturday’s unfortunate incident.
Apologies for the length but the amount of this kind of article coming from Arsenal support is really starting to grate.
Finally, and most importantly, all the best for Ramsey. It’s a horrible thing to see, especially with such a young and talented player.
Vengefulfunk – Thanks for coming out with such a detailed response suppressing your disgust no doubt at me questioning your young defender of the year.
I love how the players you’ve used as examples – from Arsenal and Stoke turn out to be foreigners. Yes criticize their intentions, character but defend an Englishman who has on three different instances sidelined a player for 3 months, 4 weeks and * 6 months at least. I find it incredible to see you use the word “seemingly” with regards to the challenge on Adebayor. If that isn’t a blatant foul with the aim to scar a footballer mentally and physically I don’t know what is.
“If you haven’t seen tackles like that week in, week out”. Do I see leg breaks every week? FFS his foot wasn’t planted in the ground. I’m pretty sure if it was then the ball would have been in the air briefly. Also the speed angle at which Shawcross was going, even if he won the tackle, the ball would have gone out of play. Pointless tackle if there was one.
Comparing Van Persie’s tackles to Shawcross is like saying hey Rio Ferdinand isn’t as good as Rooney because he doesn’t score enough goals. RVP is a striker. But like another person has said his reckless tackles have never broken a fellow professional’s leg. Ditto for Gallas. And I don’t know where you got this idea of Eboue being a dirty player. I only remember him making one really bad tackle in the CL final in 06 for which he was slated by us all.
I thought I made it perfectly clear about where Shawcross would have his long term frustrations. He was let go from Utd at 19 even though he impressed on loan. Very like Fergie to do that and then he buys one of your own talented foreign player. Even after making that tackle on Adebayor, Shawcross defended his actions saying he had to show commitment because if he didn’t his place would be on the line. If he won player of the year the year before he wouldn’t have to worry about losing his place if he had a bad game against arsenal.
Also I don’t think you’ve checked FIFA’s stance on what a bad tackle is. http://twitpic.com/162681 . This link will tell you all Lets see how Shawcross does at International level. I’m expecting him to impose himself on more technical sides like Argentina, Spain, Brazil.
Nice of you to reply, even if it’s after you’ve blatantly either not understood what I’d said or not read it properly in the first place.
“I love how the players you’ve used as examples – from Arsenal and Stoke turn out to be foreigners. Yes criticize their intentions, character but defend an Englishman”
What exactly are you implying from this? I didn’t pay any attention to the player’s nationalities when mentioning them, why did you bring it up? Why does nationality even come into this at all? And most of all, I where did I question their character? The point I was making was how common these tackles are and that most players would be considered dirty your definitions. Read what I said again and tell me where I questioned their intentions or character.
““If you haven’t seen tackles like that week in, week out”. Do I see leg breaks every week?”
Again, you’ve not read what I said. The thought process and carrying out of the tackle and the injury that occured as the result are not the same thing and that’s a pretty basic point you seem to be missing. That kind of tackle isn’t unusual, it was result result of it that was.
“FFS his foot wasn’t planted in the ground. I’m pretty sure if it was then the ball would have been in the air briefly”
If his foot wasn’t planted his leg would have been pushed away by the contact and he wouldn’t have broke his leg. Simple. The force of the tackle will take the path of least resistance, so if his foot wasn’t planted surely the path of least resistance would have been for his leg to have been pushed through the air, therefore not breaking his leg but taking it out from underneath him. Bones aren’t as fragile as you seem to think and offer a hell of a lot of resistance before they break. Note how his foot doesn’t move from the same spot on the ground until after the tackle. How would that be possible if it wasn’t planted? Saying it wasn’t planted is just as silly as the idiotic thought going round (that you must have seen) that it was broken before Shawcross made contact.
“Also the speed angle at which Shawcross was going, even if he won the tackle, the ball would have gone out of play. Pointless tackle if there was one.”
So preventing a counter attack from an opponent when your defence is out of position is a pointless tackle? I don’t think so. What would you have wanted your defender to do in that situation? Obviously not break the opponents leg but you know what I mean.
“And I don’t know where you got this idea of Eboue being a dirty player.”
I don’t have that idea. Where did I say he was dirty?
“Comparing Van Persie’s tackles to Shawcross is like saying hey Rio Ferdinand isn’t as good as Rooney because he doesn’t score enough goals. RVP is a striker.”
No it isn’t. So he can tackle how he wants? He’s a professional footballer, striker or not and should be governed by the same laws as defenders.
“I thought I made it perfectly clear about where Shawcross would have his long term frustrations.”
You were clear. People are allowed to disagree with you, you know.
“Lets see how Shawcross does at International level.”
Let’s. Personally, I don’t think he’s good enough yet but come the next world cup he could be one of the best in the country.
Before this carries on, I’d just like to make it totally clear that this disagreement is in no way personal against you or anything like that. I think you’re a good writer, but if you submit articles to the internet then you’ve got to expect criticism and feedback.
Wenger set ramsey a target of 15-20 games n 2 know he really had improved over dat period, that was his 24th game, what a set back 4 the welsh man.
the ramsey injury was a mistimed tackle and a testament to the playing sharpness of the arsenal game. it is really unfortunate for ramsey, of course. But as long as there is no clear malice in the tackle, it remains fair. it was a 50-50 tackle, both went for it as is their right. However, one thing is obvious, the only way to play arsenal and win is to test the line between physicality and violence. As we saw in the porto game, fabregas was fouled consistently. The Stoke game was also the same. AW has created a team which plays flair and fair. This team has been created with the obvious goal of winning the champions league which rewards the passing game. My heart goes out to Ramsey and its really really painful to see talent being subjected to force like this. However, to be fair Shawcross did what all defenders impulsively do when confronted with a superior player. Tackle hard but fair.
I really appreciate al say’s concerning Shawcross horrific takle to Aaron Ramsey(A young talented player lyk dat).
Besides,al say’s presently amng mst ppl is same Shawcross & Aaron Ramsey.it has happened it has happened coz at dat(accident)moment,Shawcross realised what happened was totally wrong bt wasnt intentional & furthermore,went ahead after his RC to check on Aaron Ramsey y leaving d pitch with tears. Ppl they say “Crocodie’s Tear” bt as 4me,i dont bliv such coz he felt jst as i felt here2 in tears seeing a young talented player “19″ going 4a lng time break al d seak of injury.Pls we r al human so nid move ahead in life no matter d situation of things b it Good/Bad.
NB: For al info.,am not conderming al reply’s bt we nid to move ahead in life.
Arsenal4lyf, al we nid do let it go bhind us y looking 4wrd for Aaron Ramsey quick recovery & when to play again coz i’d luv2c him play again jst a Eduador Da Silva & Abou Diaby k! Thnx
“A true Gunners fanz mst Gun2mek exploit “being Successful”.So shall it be n 2geda,we shall WIN d PL/CL. Up GuNnErS = 4LiFe.
Thnx 4ur undrstndin.
sorry vengfulfunk but i’m sure rvp and gallas haven’t broken a leg between them, in their premier league careers but good old shawcross has 2 and counting, either clumsy or malicious either way terrible
I’m not saying they have broke anyone’s leg, but I’ve seen them pile into tackles on numerous occassions that could easily have had the exact same result as Shawcross’ tackle on Ramsey. Gallas’ tackle on Mark Davies a few weeks back was far worse for me because he intentionally came in late and stamped on his ankle, and this could easily and probably should have broken it. But just cause it didn’t break, and even though the intent was there from Gallas, Shawcross’ is being seen as far worse because of the result.
Now I’m not saying Gallas or any other Arsenal player is dirty, but there needs to be a sense of perspective in the difference between reckless behaviour and what is an accident when two commited players go in for a 50/50 ball. I remember Alan Smith’s leg was broken in two places a while back when it was planted just by blocking a shot, so a leg break does not automatically mean there has been an over the top tackle. Same as I said before, accidents do happen and just because of Adebayor having a bone broken a year ago (which, as I said before, as a tackle I regard it to be far worse than the Ramsey one) this does not equal guilt in this instance. Whether Wenger chooses to believe in them or not, coincidences DO exist in football just as they do in real life.
One question I have, that’s more of a side point but has not been mentioned as far as I can see, is where is the protection on Ramsey’s leg/ankle? Football boots and shin pads are so flimsy now it’s unreal, all so players are less restricted and can feel the contact of the ball better. Could this injury have been avoided by proper leg and ankle support? I remember when shin pads covered the whole lower leg, went down to support around the ankle and were secured below the heel. I noticed that a lot of players now are using pads that they just shove down their socks and just cover the actual shin bone itself, without offering any substantial support against twists etc. Obviously though I’m not sure as to what Ramsey wears so it could be irrelevant in this case. Even though it’s a question worth asking I think, even if it turns out to not be the case. But we need to ask as football is a contact sport, and IF protection has been compromised for more skillful play, then either it needs to be addressed or players need to accept the consequences.
Apologies for length again.
leg/ankle protection? Oh please. Your defence is starting to sound desperate. Leg breaks DOES NOT happen every week. this is a PROFESSIONAL game and I’m sure they would be LEGALLY required to wear the protective gear as required.
It wasn’t a defence, I’m not Shawcross’ lawyer, and I’m certainly not desperate. If you’d read what I’d said properly you’d see me say it was a side issue and probably not even that relevant in this case, however is it not worth even asking if players are adequately protected in light of what’s happened? It is Arsenal fans that are now talking about how footballers need more protection from the FA in other areas, so why shouldn’t this be looked at?
Nice to see how you dismiss opinions without even reading them properly. Also, another side point, just what was your view of that Gallas tackle? Just since you’re so intent in sticking the oar into other side’s players.
Why did I bring nationalities? You did not question their character. But you clearly said what you thought of your own Diao and fuller.
“Salif Diao is a menace to society and Fuller has a stupid nasty streak that I hate”.
You’re quick to judge them but you’ll use your right to defend Shawcross even though he has now put three players out of action for a while. What I’m implying is pretty clear. It isn’t my fault that you are sub-conciously a xenophobic.
I would rather have seen my defender not rush in gung ho and wait. did you notice something? straight after Ramsey won the ball, it went straight to another Stoke player. For me that shows how stupid Shawcross was in making that tackle.
“The thought process and carrying out of the tackle and the injury that occured as the result are not the same thing and that’s a pretty basic point you seem to be missing.”
Yes. Nothing to do with the fact that Pulis must have egged the team to be more committed than usual and that talk lingering in Shawcross’ mind somewhere during the whole game.
I hope you’ve read the link I provided on Fifa’s stance on tackles. Then again I don’t think you have.
When the question is asked of whether players are protected, it means that the referee and his assistants are aware of what is coming (in this case Stoke were always going to play a more aggressive game than usual against us) and take stock of the situation. But the point you made was so ridiculous. To me it suggested you were happy to look at all other factors which come a distant second.
Also something that might interest you
Since 1992 The EPL has had 11 players with broken legs. La Liga has 1, Bundesliga has 1 and Serie A has had 0.
Two of those leg breaks in the EPL – Eduardo and now Ramsey.
Does that tell something good about how the game is played here?
My view on Gallas? it wasn’t an OTT challenge. How severe the tackle was can be judged by the fact that Davies was okay to play the next match. Yet there was much fuss made about that game. Where was the defence for him? Why weren’t the media saying “he isn’t that kind of player”? Did he like Shawcross have previous, breaking legs? No.
“If you got to submit articles to the internet then you’ve got to expect criticism and feedback.”
Yes, that is why I replied.
Another masterclass on how NOT to tackle from Shawcross. This was when he was at loan at Antwerp in Belgium.
sorry vengfulfunk but i’m sure rvp and gallas haven’t broken a leg between them in their premier league careers but good old shawcross has 2+ &counting, either clumsy or malicious either way terrible
&kc ohams i honestly dnt look forward 2seeing eduardo play,if he hasn’t recovered emotionally 4rm that injury maybe he should go play 4 a 2nd division team in spain. we need mentally strong players, i hope rambo is cos wen he returns he’l need it